OB-GYN Complains About Patient on Facebook — Did She Go Too Far?
Photo: Veer / The Bump
An OB/GYN at St. John’s Mercy Medical Center in St. Louis is in big trouble after complaining about a chronically tardy patient on her Facebook wall. Dr. Amy Dunbar posted,
So I have a patient who has chosen to either no-show or be late (sometimes hours) for all of her prenatal visits, ultrasounds, and NSTs. She is now three hours late for her induction. May I show up late for her delivery?
Needless to say, mothers-to-be, moms and people in general are outraged by the doctor choosing to discuss her patient publicly. Mothers on the Mercy Moms To Be Facebook page have voiced their concern over the post.
Here’s a shot of the feed that Jezebel posted and it includes comments from a registered nurse, a child psychiatrist, the OB/GYN and patients:
Photo: Jezebel / The Bump
The hospital has since reprimanded Dr. Dunbar, citing that her comments are “definitely inappropriate.” The hospital has even gone so far as to review her previous Facebook posts to ensure that she hasn’t revealed any personal medical history or violated any privacy regulations.
But where should we draw the line?
Doctors (and nurses! and medical staff!) have right to complain about their workdays, in the same way that we meet girlfriends after hours for quick catch up and to vent our own frustrations. Dealing with no-show’s, late, or difficult patients is obviously frustrating for doctors. (The same way that we get annoyed beyond belief when someone shows up late to a work event, late to a meeting, unprepared for a presentation or doesn’t even bother to show at all.) The situation here is amplified because the patient is pregnant and the doctor is the one responsible for delivering the baby (and lets get real, there’s no way we’re okay with the delivering doctor showing up LATE to baby’s birth.)
But maybe Dunbar’s patient has a reason for being routinely late — and it would have been in the doctor’s best interest to discuss the issue with her patient before posting it to Facebook. Taking it to Facebook makes the doctor look childish, catty and much, much worse — unprofessional. How can you trust the relationship you’ve built with a doctor if she’s airing out all your business on the very public Inter-webs? You can’t. The only saving grace here is that Dunbar chose not to include patient name or anything specific about the pregnant woman.
How does this make you feel?
Plus, more from The Bump:
Should I Go to a OB/GYN or a Family Practice?
What Happens at a Typical OB Appointment?
The Knot Blog
The Nest Blog
I do not see what the big deal is? She did not NAME the person..just complained. Everyone complains sometime or another. I could see if she mentioned a name…but she didn’t. And chronically late all the time…this wasn’t a one time thing. People need to get over it.
I agree. She didn’t leave a name, let her vent.
Wrong.
HIPPA violation.
You are right.
There was no Hippa violation! People who think there was, ARE very ignorant AND STUPID!!!!! Why should I as a caregiver constantly accommodate late patients? Not anymore, there arses are being rescheduled or don’t come back. There are many other people waiting to be seen and that care enough about themselves and others to be on time to an appointment.
Gosh…did she point a candy cane pistol at anyone?
Maybe she should be suspended.
We live in a World where what is right is wrong.
What is up is down.
And, then we have all those fussy new rules to live by or die.
Go Figure?
This is a ridiculous reaction to a doctor posting something. Anger towards the physician, get them fired, it is inappropriate for a physician to get angry. It is totally the American way to not be held accountable for your own actions as a patient. I’d say, fire the patient.
I agree 100% with this comment. The patient was not named therefore it doesnt violate HIPPA, this is just a woman venting on facebook. I’m sure there are plenty of people out there who vent about their day at work and the people they come across in life as well. Facebook isn’t private, and of course people will have their opinions on whats posted, but it’s not exactly something someone should be losing their job over, like I said, no laws were broken, get over yourselves.
Kinda one sided. What patient is late for appts., ultrasound, and NTS. Especially after a stillbirth and how do you know that the doctor didn’t try to find out why? That patient has got to be stupid to be late for an induction.
I have no idea what the big deal is! If I had a previous stillbirth I would be 30 minutes early to all appointments and would NOT be late for an induction. The patient needs to be in trouble for being stupid not the doctor =/
You are absolutely right. The Dr. did not do anything wrong. I would not waited for the patient that long. Whoever is giving the Dr. a hard time, STOP!!!
I dont see any issue. She doesn’t name names. People are allowed to vent its called freedom of speech.
Everyone deserves the right to vent about their day. If the doctor had named or given identifying information about the patient, I can see the outrage. But the doctor did not reveal any information about the patient (that we know about, if that changes then my opinion changes). This patient has caused other patients to be late to their own appointments, because the staff is waiting for her to show up before they let others in to see the doctor (going off the assumption of my own doctor’s office).
this is over the top, sorry. she didn’t name names, this is no different than any of us complaining about work on fb. teachers complain about students and don’t name names. whoever reported this needs to get a life. and if he patient is that routinely late the office has the right to refer her elsewhere, there is no excuse for that.
I definitely agree that they took this way too far! She didn’t name any names, and is certainly entitled to vent her frustrations. I thought it was funny that you brought up teachers, because I am a teacher, and DID get into trouble from my boss for venting about one of my students on facebook. I never named any names, but I still got in huge trouble. I thought it was over-the-top then, and still do now. I’ve seen parents vent about teachers on their facebook accounts, but they don’t get reprimanded for dragging the teacher’s names through the dirt, so why shouldn’t teachers be allowed to vent, too? Great points!!!!
This is really stupid! What’s the point in trying to find out why shes late every time? If you make an appointment, make it at a convenient time and show up! Its not hard, especially if it concerns the well-being of your child! Or at least call and let people know why you’re running late. She didn’t name names so this really shouldn’t be a problem
Maybe she’s dealing with depression from the still birth? We lost our first child and as much as I LOVED being pregnant with the second I was terrified to go to the drs, afraid his heart wouldn’t be beating, or we’d get bad news. You don’t know the woman’s side of the story, and the fact that she was late over and over means the dr had made no effort to talk to her about it, or tell her she wouldn’t see her anymore.
what a dumb-ass
as long as she’s not adding names or personal information I don’t see anything wrong with it, obviously her comment about showing up late to the delivery isn’t what she’s going to do. the expecting mom is showing disrespect for her dr and ALL the other expecting moms that her being late is delaying.
I really don’t see the big deal here! She is human just like the rest of us and I know a lot of people who like to get on Facebook and complain about things that happen to them throughout the day! I could see if she had used the patient’s name or any other specific info. so other people would know who she was referring to but I really don’t see the issue here! Although I am not one of those people who tells my life story to everyone on FB. I really don’t see why people get on their at all and tell the everybody what goes on in their lives from the time they wake up till the time they go to bed at night! I think people put way too much info. about themselves out there for others to see anyway!
She should lose her job! The laws of HIPAA have very strict rules for all employees and doctors should be held to at least the same standard. It was childish, unnecessary and stupid–there are many ways to vent frustration. This was not one of them. I want to see an example set. I see people on facebook like pharmacy techs, nurses, cnas, and child care workers saying inappropriate things about clients that don’t need to be told to hundreds or thousands of people! It’s unprofessional. My fear is people are forgetting that what they say isn’t being said to a few friends at an intimate gathering. Seriously. People say things on the social network they wouldn’t say in person. It’s supposed to be about communication but I think it’s much more about vanity.
Not only should she be fired, but I’d go further. I think her hospital should leak her name to Facebook. Then, all the hospital administrators within a 1500 mile radius should become friends and post this article with her name attached. Then she will definitely realize the power of it all, and it’ll teach her to respect it as well as her patients, regardless of what she thinks of them!
I especially hate how she reposted about the “still birth”–kinda making herself out to be a hero because she puts up with this tardiness for ethical reasons. How Rich!
Woooa, calm down there klit75. Have you actually read the HIPAA laws? I think you need to take a deep breath and think about the facts, as we know them, of this situation. Don’t thrown in all your irrelevent comments of what you say other people have done, this lady was just venting about a very inconsiderate patient but did not reveal any identifying details. Taking her comments as facts (because I have no reason to assume otherwise) being habitually late is very inconsiderate to many other people, not just the Dr. If the patient feels offended by the comments then she has every right to change Drs.
Another DOUBLE “LIKE”!!!!!
I said my peace yesterday. I couldn’t believe how many people sided with the doctor in this situation. I’m all for a difference of opinion and free speech but this is sort of like one mind. To the one who commented I should read the HIPAA laws–I’ll try to be as honest as possible and I’ll tell you I’ve only sat through the trainings (many, many times) and based on what I know they almost go too far. If you were treating a person with AIDS, you are on a need to know basis. That means the doctor knows and very few other people. So lets say you’re working in a psych hospital. Physical management is necessary but rarely done by the doctors and they get assaulted much less frequently. Sure, use universal precautions but that’s sometimes a luxury of the people who actually get to wait in an office. For the people who need to protect themselves from punches and bites it’s usually not an option. Why bring this up? Because lets say a nurse wants to be courteous to the worker. Whenever someone gets into a situation where they may have exposed themselves, she would sometimes insist they get to a hospital immediately. Other times, she gives a wink and says don’t worry.
This is technically a breach of HIPAA. She shouldn’t be telling them they may need immediate medical attention, even though she never confirmed the patient had anything that could be transmitted to them, nor did she give a hint as to what it may be. So there’s an example of just how strict it is. They put the workers in danger in order to protect the privacy of patients. I AM aware of the HIPAA laws. NO, I cannot dictate them verbatim. But, I doubt most of the people who come to this DRs. defense can either.
There’s legal and then ethical. No she did not use the patients name. Technically, I don’t think what she did was illegal. But, I do not retract my original opinion. It was unethical. If she were a victim of someone talking about her via the internet, I doubt she would be so non-chalant, saying “It’s no big deal.” And when details are used it’s always possible to track down the person. In some cases, however, the wrong person might be the one suspected of completely irresponsible behavior.
That being said, if everything she said about this woman is true then it’s quite possible (very likely) she needs help. And the unborn child may be in danger. AND, this doctor’s actions are what? Certainly not heroic. How does bitching help the unborn baby?
I am pro-choice. But, a stern believer that if you choose to keep a baby you need to take care of it, even before it’s born. It’s appalling to me that pregnant mother’s can get away with neglect. It’s also hard for me to believe that anyone in their right mind would hurt an unborn child, particularly a woman. Yes. I live in the real world, but a lot of these woman are in need of psychiatric help. The laws are actually pretty over the top at times in regards to child protection. But way on the other side of the spectrum when it comes to the unborn. That should change.
I think it’s interesting that most of you felt it more important to defend the doctor, and go on the offensive with me, rather than bring up this issue (which I would think might be the reason you sided with the doctor in the first place.) The general tone of that doctor’s posts seemed to be more of personal frustration, judgement and hate toward the nameless woman. The judgement part, especially, is one I have a problem with. I’m a big believer in trying to change the broken parts of the system. As a doctor I think she should want to as well.
If you’re still reading, I’ll wrap this up briefly by saying one more thing–Social Media is not a bad thing in itself but it’s brought about some real ugliness in it’s short history. It’s helped to almost destroy our print media. It’s introduced us to cyber bullying and a spike in teen suicide. It’s also brought us farther apart as social beings. You say it’s no big deal. I say it finds a way to infect our judgement and general social etiquette. People say it’s the new form of communication, keeping people connected. That’s fair enough. However, I truly believe it’s just a little about communication and a lot more about vanity.
By the way, I might be wrong about a lot of things. Without getting overly articulate and over intellectualizing everything…sometimes I can still trust good old instinct. My senses tell me, above all else, what this woman did was wrong. Harmless in this case?…well you tell me–it made national news! My fear is that if examples are not set, more and more incidents will begin to pop up. Your overwhelming acceptance or even tolerance of these might not be the best thing for our society. I’ve said all I need to say. Thanks for at least reading it, and sorry it went on so long.
Get over you bump and realize the Doc never mentioned a patients name or any personal info. She did nothing wrong, from a legal stand point. I would be willing to bet you have complained about people being late to met you or do something for you and you mentioned their name spefically. Get over yourself and grow up.
Again…I think people are leaping to assumptions based on little information from one source. There’s already a good outlet for that. Just tune into Sean Hannity on FOX NEWS then tweet about some of his BS points. It’s dangerous I can assure you. Maybe not so much for this story, but it creates bad habits that hate machines have more than enough fire to run on. My concern at this point is not so much the doctor getting fired, but more so how easy it is for all of you to take the side of someone because of her job and supposed social standing. And you’re surrendering to the idea that this pregnant woman has no reason for her tardiness. You all probably also assume the stillbirth was a result of her actions. Maybe, but I stopped judging people I hardly know awhile ago. People will sometimes surprise you–both the have mores and the have less.
The one exception of course is when I see a doctor vent on the internet about a patient and then goes a step further by adding details that could narrow down the confidentiality to probability of the revealing patient’s identity. Sorry. “Everyone needs to vent.” just doesn’t cut it.
Are you serious ? Would banish her to Siberia too. She is not a public figure, she can say this on FB, HIPPA only applies to naming names and such specific details that one can figure out the name.. What if she posted ” I delivered 3 set of twins today” would that also be a violation? Come on, you sound more intelligent than that.
exactly! if doctors can get fired over comments like “i delivered my first set of twins today!” because people can track down which twins were birthed on X day, that is extremely narrow minded! when will the madness end! LOL!!
Um, she didn’t name names. Why don’t you read HIPaa before spouting off about it.
Seems some mom to bes think the world should revolve around them. Newsflash: You aren’t the first woman to grow a human. Get over yourself.
Yeah, because we have sooo many qualifiied OB/GYN doctors out there, let’s toss one aside because she (may have) hurt somebody’s feelings. Crap like this is why it’s getting harder and harder to get doctors in this field. Add to that the ambulance chasing lawyers who want to get women to sue if their baby has a hangnail at birth. She didn’t name any names. I don’t care what reasons the patient may have had for being late. You can CALL the office and let them know. Did you see that there were times when the patient didn’t even bother to show up? Who shows up LATE for their induction? And you want to crucify the doctor for making an offhand remark because she’s frustrated about an anonymous patient? I’m more inclined to call CPS to check on this baby after the daft mother delivers.
people are siding with the doctor for a reason. maybe if you step back and take a look you’ll realize you’re being ridiculous. firing a skilled and qualified doctor who worked extremely hard to get that job over a facebook comment is plain stupid. the doctor can learn not to post stuff on facebook. as it is MOST doctors DO have to vent about work, and the mostly do it with family members or other doctors. this one was just too naive to think her fb comment wouldn’t get spread and used as troll fodder. go find something productive to do with your life instead of obsess over this doctor.
boy klit75, you really are STUPID! She didn’t break HIPPA. Before making a post next time, you should make sure you know what you are talking about! STUPID, STUPID, STUPID!!!!!
Maybe the woman was rethinking the induction. Most of us in the know recognize that inductions are done for the doctor’s benefit…. not the baby’s or the patient’s.
Seriously? Inductions are only done for the docs convenience? As someone who has carried three children past the due date (one for a full two weeks past), I can assure you that induction is sometimes medically necessary.
That is actually not true. 2 of my friends had to have inductions. One friend was at 43 weeks, and that isnt good at all for either the baby or her.
And the other had to have an induction because the baby was already 10 lbs at 38 weeks and they couldnt chance him getting bigger.
Do not take up for the late mommy. Here is why: she has be late repeatedly. At what point is she to be held responsible and accountable for her actions? That is what is wrong with the people now. All they think about is themselves. They blame everyone else when something goes wrong. This is a soapbox of mine.
Irresponsible mother to be = irresponsible parent who is more then likely on welfare or receiving some sort of federal or state free handouts. I am all for Dunbar. The mom to be here needs to keep her appointment times and show some mature and responsible decision making skills. Hell, I hope the state takes away the baby and gives it to more deserving people who will raise it better.
Exactly!
0.0
Wow. So being chronically late, means you are an unfit mother? Then you go and trash mothers who need welfare? That’s quite a stretch.
Thankyou, Bianca! I’ve got tons of hateful venom coming my way because I didn’t side with the doctor. I didn’t address it but it was on the tip of my tongue–many of these people are assuming the woman is a welfare Mom and in doing so also assume that only a welfare mom could be irresponsible and be late. I applaud you for coming after them the way they attack people every day that they don’t know and pass judgements upon. There is an underlying tone to this site. They seem almost cult like in their beliefs and hatefulness toward certain people and others who happen to disagree with them.
I have had 5 children, all but one were 100% induced and one was delivered by a nurse because the doctor didn’t make it in time and another landed on the bed because not even the nurse made it on time. I don’t see what the doctor did wrong and I think the MOTHER is irresponsible for being late to all her appointments especially since she had a prior stillbirth.
so, only patients should complains about doctors? The other way around is not OK? Really? No mention that missing or late patients mean lost income, messed up schedules, impostions on other patients…..Can’t complain about that? Just take it and shut up?
Where is the freedom of speech?
And this was posted without any information that may indentify the patient, so?
Everyone has a right to freedom of speech. No names were mentioned therefore there is no harm. People need to grow the heck up and get a life. Worrying about what someone posted on fb is neither newsworthy nor worth my time.
Taking it far!! This type of behavior is going to ensur that we stay in dark ages. The only right that is being violated is hers. Naming her, rouining her career ,etc.
I am sorry for all of us and all the patients who will be interacting with ‘scared’ doctors.
Where I work we have started a “no late policy” and the patients have started taking advantage of it. They used to be rescheduled if they were 15min late, now they can be an hour late and still be seen and they know this. It throws everyone off, the triage nurse, the doctor not to mention the patients who were on time. Yes, we all vent on facebook, we vent about the stupid stuff people come in for, we vent about misspellings our clerks use in medical terminology but we do not use pt information ever. There is no error in the dr’s post at all. Get over it. The patient is just a bit butt hurt as is someone on the Dr’s page. Put on your big girl panties and grow up!
I work in a medical device field. There are tons of rules and regulations.
The Dr. never gave out any information that would violate HIPPA laws or privacy of a patient.
No problem here, tell the soon to be poor mother to shut up. If anything the Dr. should sue the patient now for defaming her, wasting her time/money, etc.
@Matt–Hear, hear! I would add one thing, however. I think the mother should be charged for any “no-shows”. My doctor’s policy is that if you do not cancel or reschedule your appointment more than 24 hours before, you will be charged anyway. Make her pay for not showing up and she’ll get there the next time.
This silly, so what if she commented on a patient being late !! She did not share name or details etc.. or sharing episiotomy photos. Seriously you should choose your battles.
Oh PLEASE there were no names! Every1 complains, It is no big deal. Maybe the patient will learn something. ‘sides at my dr office if you are 15 min late you will be handed your rescheduled app’t card as soon as you show up for the app’t no ifs ands or butts.
No name, no privacy violation.
Granted, the office shouldn’t have tolerated the inconsiderate twit’s behavior after the first time or two… but still, the doctor did nothing wrong.
Bet this child doesn’t make it to age 2 before they’re in the care of the state.
As a responsible human being I was taught at an early age that TO BE LATE is the HEIGHT OF DISRESPECT to the others you are involved with. That is why any normal person always leaves early enough to allow for traffic, flat tire, etc. That is why a responsible person is always a tad early for work, appointments, etc.
The chronically late woman should be ashamed. Irresponsible pregnant woman = irresponsible mother. You can bet she will be the one not showing up for parent teacher conferences or other appointments that will be crucial to her child’s development if she is so inconsiderate and irresponsible as to be chronically late for ob-gyn – much less the induction.
As to you above who are expressing such righteous umbrage against the doctor – really? If YOU WERE THE ONE continually sitting and waiting and wasting your valuable time (i.e. – if you were sitting at home waiting on the appliance repairman who was habitually late) I would bet MONEY you would be the first ones on the phone ripping someone.
Please. It is laughable and ridiculous. Everyone complains because physicians are late or delayed – perhaps consideration should be given to the reasons why. Sometimes it is over booking, but sometimes it is because of rude ingrates such as this woman.
Rebecca, you don’t know me. You don’t even know my name. And you’re wrong I don’t rip people new ones. I manage to get through life pretty well despite this. I might swear to myself. I might call the cable guy if he’s running late to make sure I wasn’t forgotten, but I like to assume people are doing their best unless they give me good reason to believe otherwise. And if I reach that unfortunate conclusion I wouldn’t feel the need to tell hundreds of people.
Every time I go with my grandmother to the Doctor I wait 2 hours minimum. I listen to people complain in the office. I get annoyed because I have to wait for so long, but she likes her and she needs a doctor so I don’t consider it a tragedy to take 2 hours once a month to sit down and read magazines! Maybe there’s the problem. We empathize with the doctor in the story because we all hate waiting? We live in a world where pizza takes less than 30 mins to get to your house, Amazon does same day delivery, movies are just a click away, and we can reach hundreds of people in a matter of seconds when it used to take hours or days to write letters or call them.
Despite my very first post here, I’m one of the calmer people you’ll ever meet. I have patience. Once in a great while a hot button topic comes up and I take a side. I went on the offensive with the doctor because I believe , not the venting, but how she did it was wrong. You see I get angry just like every one else, but my words and actions are something I can control. I took none of that out on the people who disagreed with me. However, when they started to be a little sarcastic and rude, in my opinion, I returned some it but still went back to my original convictions. That’s another misconception that many people make–they assume someone who doesn’t put a finger in your face, raise their voice and belittle you that they are somehow weak. I think self control is a virtue and a strength.
When Bill Clinton was in the White House and their would be a heated debate going on, if he noticed it was getting out of hand he’d tell them to stop. Then he’d direct them to something by his desk. He’d say that is a piece of an asteroid dated by NASA to be 3 TRILLION years old! Then he’d say “Relax Guys…We are all just passing through!”
I back up the Dr. Good for her. I know if I am over 15 min. late for my Dr. appts. they reschedule me. What am inconsiderate woman. I wouldn’t be so accommodating. I would charge her a late fee.
I guess no one noticed that the post is time stamped, that she mentioned the patient has always shown up late for appointments, that she had a scheduled induction for 3 hours prior to the time of the post, and that she had a previous stillbirth. All of that can help identify her to people who know her.
Not to mention being late doesn’t mean that this woman is inconsiderate or “hitting up the bar” as the psychologist (I have to wonder where she got her degree if that’s the first thing that came to her mind) joked(?). The only thing it means is there is a reason (or perhaps more than one reason) that she isn’t able to get there on time. There is no mention of the doctor having discussed her tardiness with her. There is only this complaint being made publicly which is distasteful. For the record, I never complained about work on Facebook, and none of my friends have either. I’m pretty sure I only ever complained to my mom, best friend, and husband, all privately and separately. I would never make a spectacle of a patient if I were a doctor. I’ve seen my fair share of terrible doctors but don’t post about them either. Let’s not make a martyr of this doctor because others have similarly poor judgment. That’s not what this is about, so stop defending her because in some way she reminds you of yourself. If one million people committed a crime, it wouldn’t make it legal, and it wouldn’t make it right. It would only mean it’s popular.
I’d like to think this patient was smart enough to avoid induction. Lack of induction is not why babies die, but induction can quickly go downhill. I don’t know her though. For all I know, the woman could have been in an accident on the way to her induction and ended up rushed to another hospital. We don’t know any details on the woman’s side, so everyone making assumptions needs to just take a step back and reevaluate. Stop making assumptions just to feed your assertion that this doctor has done nothing wrong simply because you may have done the same in her position. She had given enough information publicly for the patient and anyone close to her to know it was her. Depending on which state’s medical board you refer to, that does violate HIPPA. In fact, this has happened before in Rhode Island and it was considered a HIPPA violation, so there you go.
Many doctors book more than one patient Ina time slot. It is impossible to know who the patient is. It would be a whole lot of assumptions that is all. And it’s not like this,patient was late only one time. Once is understandable but there is no excuse for being habitually late. No excuse whatsoever.
Anyone who would defend this kind of patient behavior does not work in a medical. Have you thought for one minute how this new mom will take care of this poor child!!! Come on people, defending someone like this is disgusting! All these people do is live a life of excuses!!!
She obviously did discuss her tardiness with her, hence the “previous still born” comment. She is a doctor and not a moron so it stands to reason that she was taught to address things like tardiness with patients. There are also COUNTLESS women who would fit the same bill as that woman, chances are pretty darn good that there are other doctors in the hospital as well. It would be very difficult to identify the women in question when you actually sit and take time to think about the logistics of it.
Thank you Lexie! This could very well constitute a HIPPAA violation due to all the details she posted. I brought that up and was rudely told I need to read the HIPPA rules before giving my irrelevant comments. Rudeness seems to be a common link in a lot of responses I got. I’ve got thick skin, but it bothers me that we can’t have adult discussions anymore.
I think it is perfectly fine that she vented on facebook. A lot of us do. I also work in a place where information is confidential. She did not use the patient’s name so therefore did not break any laws. I say leave the woman be. She has a right to be pissed. I can’t stand people being late every single time. I show up early for everything or right on time if I’m running late. Why can’t you? Give the doc a break.
First of all, people, it’s HIPAA…..not HIPPA.
I work in an employment office. Late = NO JOB
Some people have no consideration of others time. Good for the doctor.
DOUBLE “LIKE”!!!!!
There’s no HIPAA violation here. The hospital was wrong to reprimand her for anything other than poor business sense (i.e. the fallout from this is bad for her and the hospital because it makes her look uncaring and unprofessional.)
I tell similar stories all the time about idiotic patients. And yes, there are plenty of them. Some of them are even pregnant.
The doctor obviously isn’t going to show up late to the delivery. Sarcasm people…sarcasm.
She deserves to vent! these doctors live around their patients and this patient constant tardiness finally got to her, if the woman was constantly late because she did not like her doctor she could of switched a long time ago. If this was from her personal Facebook page there shouldn’t be a problem. She did not reveal the name, she should of not had mentioned the prior still birth because that does narrow it down but honestly people have bad days.
It’s a rant, with no personal information released. Doc Dunbar, would have been better suited to release it on her personal facebook, friendlocked. That way, she could have safely vented without it being such a fubar event right now.
I think the Doc should get a promotion. Since when in the world has holding someone accountable for poor behavior and calling them out on their lack of personal responsibility a bad thing?
The doctor did nothing wrong! She has every right to vent. It is very irresponsible of that patient. People complain when doctors are late and they are usually legitimately late. That girl needs to be dismissed and she needs to find someone who will tolerate her behavior. Everyone needs to leave this doctor alone.
Ge a life people. The doctor did nothing wrong. If I were the doctor I would have told her to find another physician a long time ago.
The first time the patient shows up hours late she is seen any way, or she no shows and is conveniently rescheduled? Over and over again? The doctor set the standard for this type of behavior and encouraged it. Then instead if managing her practice she cries in FB? if she were my Doctor i would change immediately. No doctor should be this desperate for patients
In our OBGYN office we will fire you from the practice if your are consistently late, we don’t tolerate it, it makes the office run behind and not fair to the 99% who are on time! It’s disrespectful to the doctor as well as the staff, the pt should have been fired, given 30 day notice to find a new doctor and been done with it. If she is getting NST (non stress test) she has a high risk pregnancy, you dont just do those on anybody! Get her lazy butt delivered and sent her a letter that you will not be taking care of her any longer! We have patients who have been given strict instruction on NOTHING TO EAT OR DRINK MORNING of a scheduled C/Section and eat a candy bar and coke on the way to hospital to have surgery!!! I DON’T BLAME THIS DOCTOR—–sometimes you have to blow off some steam and with FB your coworkers can relate, I know I can and I don’t know this poor doctor!! Leave her alone and KUDDOS to her a thousand times!!!!!
As a recently pregnant woman I don’t think this doctor did anything wrong. The patients name wasn’t given. This patient was scheduled for a certain time (or times), if they couldn’t make it or going to be late they should’ve called because there are other pregnant women who may want to meet with this doctor but can’t because the doc is waiting for another. I’ve sat 2 hours in the waiting room waiting for my doc because a person showed up late & they were considerate enough to take her, which ended up making me miss more work time. My sister & her sister in law just had similiar issues.
Everyone who says it should’ve been dealt with in private with the patient, it may have been discussed in private but the issue could’ve kept happening.
There was no hippa violation. She has a right to be frustrated and what she said was fine. She could have said much worse and still be within reason. That particular patient was the one who was inconsiderate. For those defending her, saying she might have reasons and the doctor should find out.Im sure her missed appointments and late arrivals were addressed with the patient since prenatal visits are very important.
IT’S HIPAA……HIPAA…..HIPAA
Give me a break. You’re going to try to get a doctor fired for airing the fact that they’re frustrated with a patient whose rudeness disrupts an office’s work flow? The patient should be encouraged to find another doctor who can accommodate her need to be chronically late. This article’s intimation that “private counseling” should take place because there may be a “reason” why the patient is chronically late. Ummmmm….the patient needs to make her schedule to keep her appointments on time. There is no excuse for rude patients. As a former health care office worker, I’ve had to deal with these “chronically tardy” patients and the fall out they create with our schedule and the disgruntled patients who take their appointments seriously enough to show up on time. Trying to “squeeze” the late person in during someone else’s regular appointment is a disservice to the person who is on time. It creates dissention with co-workers because they have to juggle the patients as well. The doctor has every right to vent her frustration on any board as long a HIPAA was not violated. Too bad if the patient recognized herself. Maybe she’ll learn something.
Why is this a story? No breach of patient privacy. Freedom of speech utilized. Who decided to share the Doctor’s posting? I’m guessing she has her FRIENDS on her FB, not her patients. Why can’t we vent to our friends?
I am generally early for appointments. I WAIT 15 minutes past when my appointment was supposed to be then I leave and find a new doctor. This doctor needs to cut ties with this patient, after this baby, if she can’t deal with the tardiness.
The comment was rhetorical. Good grief. BTW – I like the idea of giving this chronically late patient the last appointment slot of the day. If she is not on time, then too bad.
wow no freedom of speech how sad.. then anyone who posts on the bump complaining about their doctors should get sued ….
In some states and Dr`s. if the patient is 10 minutes late than the patient has to re-schedule the appointment and in addition be charged a $25 cancellation fee for not showing up on time, and maybe for the complete bill for the day for a no call no she. And some offices do allow a 24 hour notice to cancel or change the appointment if the patient need to. This patient should have called either way saying that she will be late because of her reason or even re schedule the appointment. I know it is important to keep your OB appointments but come on this patient is just pissing of the Dr. and there is no excuse to do this all the time. And with this situation the Dr has the right to keep her as a patient as the patient has the right to change Dr`s. So, the patient is more in the wrong than the Dr was. It does sound like the Dr gave way to many chances for this patient to receive her services.
Unbelievable. People pry and complain that doctors are never running on time, yet you think this doctor is out of line? Also, there is no PHI in her claim. No privacy was violated in this aspect.
Worst of all, usually these late patients will show up at a different time of the day, or about twenty minutes late, and still expect to be seen.
Your tardiness forces a physician out of rhythm by altering their appointment preparation. Plain and simple.
I think she should dismiss the patient from her practice! Just like you can decided to go to another Dr. The Dr. has the right to dismiss a patient from his/her practice in the event they miss or are habitually late,
do not follow the Dr;s advice,disrespectful, do not pay their co pays… That would settle that!
No identifying information, no problem. She’s showing something called ‘humor’ in the original post to deal with something that has upset her. You should start an investigation on humor. I’ll point you in the right direction – pick up a dictionary.
So it’s ok for an anonymous patient to criticize a doctor but not ok for a doctor to criticize an anonymous patient?
I do not see whats wrong with this, Personal Thoughts on a personal Facebook page. If I were to meet someone once and then they read all my personal information i’d think they were a stalker. It annoys me that i cannot register my thoughts and opinions to my family and friends without the possibility of being socially attacked by the media.
People are foolish to think that rambling on about their daily lives is important or productive. I do not see the fascination in declaring my life to the rest of the world. Nothing you put on the internet is private, when it goes up there the information is no longer possessed by you (unlike a book or any other physical item). That being said, the doctor has no fault here at all. I do not care what the patient did or how many times she is late. HIPAA only prevents the transfer of identifiable material. Everyone thinks that HIPAA a roadblock to all information being disseminated, and it is not. There are similar laws in place for accountants and other professions but no one (or at least far fewer) would complain if an accountant came on and complained that someone was late for their tax appointment, and never brought the proper information.
Let’s get at the real heart of why this gets a response.
1) it is related to a female reproductive health issue. Which in many circles is sacred
2) we know little to nothing about the patient so we “fill in gaps” based on the information given. Many will make jumps to poor, stressed, and uncaring for being late / stillbirth.
3) no mention of a husband or father in here. so obviously he is not participating in these events (because they would have to coordinate for time) OR mention of the father is intentionally omitted. (admittedly conjecture, but with some basic support)
4) People are “experts” at everything thanks to the internet. Just because we see something, spend 5 minutes on “a search engine”, all of a sudden a person is well versed on a topic. In this case I am about 99% sure that no one in here has actually read or understands the breath and scope of the actual HIPAA law. Just because you read a brief blurb on it does not make you an expert on what it does and does not cover.
John, Excellent post! You are the voice of reason in this weird world I just stumbled into on the bump Blog. I was accused of not knowing the law, even though I’ve sat through the trainings at least a dozen times, but I still admitted I couldn’t dictate it verbatim. That being said, there was a precedent where a doctor has been fired before. There’s also been multiple counts of teachers being fired for complaining (very vaguely) about students. There were no names used in those cases either. It was also something she thought she was venting to “close friends”, as if facebook friends qualify!
I also think it’s interesting that every one assumes the Doctor is an upstanding citizen, bordering on an angel, and the nameless woman is scum based on 3 sentences we read! This reminds me of a high school clique that really gets each other. If there is one opposing opinion they will be cast out to the freaks table!
What the cool, undoubtedly attractive doctor did was wrong because like I said, and you said, and many others have said before–THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS PRIVACY ON THE INTERNET! I know the doctor agrees with most every one on this site that she was not wrong, but I’ll bet you anything she sure as heck wishes she never made that dumb mistake now. And it was a mistake. It was not smart, it was sort of immature (the need to tell your “friends” online how much a stranger sucks!) But, she’s OK because she did something they would do. As if there are people out there who have never done anything wrong or ethically questionable.
Working in a medical office myself, I can certainly see how this patient would cause lots of aggravation for the staff. There is NO way we would put up with someone being that late all the time. If you’re more than 10 minutes late you might get rescheduled. That seems harsh, but when you’re appointment is scheduled for 15 minutes and it takes 5 minutes to get you back and settled in.. well it’s disrespectful to our other patients. People like to complain about waiting on doctors all the time, but a lot of it has to do with patients running late, coming in for a cold and ‘oh by the way, I think I have depression’…. we do our best to help people get taken care of, but doctors, nurses and staff are human too.
That being said, I think this doctor was wrong. I’m all for venting, but I think it’s VERY unprofessional to be talking about a patient on facebook. Whether or not she gave out any direct identifying information it might be possible for her to be identified. As far has HIPAA goes, she probably was ok, but it’s a grey zone.
The moral of the story, don’t put anything on facebook that you don’t want to share with EVERYONE.
are we seriously trying to argue that the patient must have decided to skip her induction and that was why she was late…? snort… yeah, because cancelling WITHOUT calling is the height of responsibility and manners.
i just love how this post inevitably spiraled into the “dr’s are evil and inductions are satanic.” i’m waiting for the homebirthers to jump on board and steer it their way. come on folks, stick to the topic… patient is routinely late, the dr vented about it on fb and broke no rules or laws by doing so. anyone who claims to have NOT done this, whether about work or your kids, is 100% LYING.
i reiterate my previous post- the office needs to refer the patient elsewhere. here’s hoping she had a healthy baby who will not inherit mom’s lateness streak.
I dont think its a big deal she did not name any names but at the same time lets be professional about it and vent to our friends not on the world wide web! I never talk bad about my work on my fb because I like and cant afford to lose my job and you never know who is looking at that. Yes my customers stress me to the max some are just plain awful and I do vent to my friends and family but I dont post it on fb. That being said I think the doctor should get a verbal warning and go back to work its not that big of a deal now if she was throwing names out there yes but she didnt. Every one makes mistakes even doctors at least her mistake was on fb and im sure she was just being sarcastic about being late for the birth of the baby but in all honesty what mother shows up late for every doctors appointment and her induction!!!! Especially after having a still birth!!! I was early to all of mine because my child was that important to me!!
She didn’t mention names, and we all vent on Facebook. As long as she is not revealing any type of sensitive patient information, I dont see her post being any different than any other Facebook rant. Maybe in the future she would want to make sure her postings are private, and not available to just anyone (unless of course of one her friends brought this situation to light). I personally do not have my place of work listed on my profile at all, nor do I list what I do, the more personal information your profile shares, the easier you are to find, but then again, you have your right to vent your frustrations in your own online space as long as you are not personally attacking someone who is identifiable by someone else.
I read most of these posts and cannot believe the snarky, rude, disrespectful, and hurtful comments that were said about the physician and the patient. Everyone is so FB and social network crazy that they’ve lost all sense of decency. The physician should have kept her comments to herself period. I don’t put her on a pedestal or say she’s the worse person for doing what she did. She just didn’t use common sense. A professional would keep her comments to herself. I think she should be more concerned with why her patient is always late. First of all, let’s remember a pregnant woman is not “sick”. If she used this physician before and she had a stillbirth she might be rethinking her choice of this physician. After all you do not need an OB to have a baby. Is it rude? Yes. But she is pregnant and hormones can have you up and down in your mood. There are so many assumptions being made it is truly sad. The OB profession on a whole thinks that they are in control of a woman’s birth. And it is so sad that most women have given them that power. Our bodies know how to birth and always have. It’s the interventions and inductions that have women thinking they can’t. It might be a good thing if the physician is late to the delivery. Anyone can catch a baby. The woman if left alone and supported will birth the baby. Maybe what her patient needs is love and support and depending on the situation due to her prior pregnancy counseling. I cannot believe the lack of compassion and the focus on FB. I do not think she should lose her job, however she should be trained in bedside manners. And be reminded of the hippocratic oath doctors take of “Do No Harm”. This would be in actions and words.
Even though the doctor didn’t say the patients name, it was still unethical to post it. No matter her feelings and the fact that she needs to vent like the rest of society, she could’ve went about it more constructive way. Those in the medical field are set to a higher ethical stardard due to dealing with so many people with different point of views and opinions. So even though she didn’t do anything illegal, what she did do COULD be taken very poorly by some of the population and could reflect negatively not only on herself but the hospital she works at too. And as far as the hospital is concerned, that is a huge no-no.
My personal position on this issue is neutral. I can see the valid reasons on both sides of this argument. However, what I’ve mentioned is fact and its the reason why she is receiving a slap on the wrist from her work place. No matter the frustrations from your work place or your patients, as a medical professional you are expected to bare it. Unfortunately, to some, that is what is expected from their employers.
KHITA,
so because I am in the medical profession, you believe that I am expected to bare all the irresponsible actions that my patients do to me? So when that man decided to kiss me and put his tongue in my mouth, or that other guy that grabbed by ass, oh, that girl that had to show me her g-string, the time I had chunks of vomit in my hair, face, glasses, scrubs, shoes, and etc, or the many times I had to work hours late because a patient was significantly late but can’t turn away because of liability reasons, you say that I am expected to just deal with it? I have been slapped, my co-workers have been assaulted as well. I have been in the medical field for over 20 years, dedicated myself to serving others,literally serving others to the point that when us, medical people, get home, we don’t have much left to give to our own family because we are giving it away to people like you at work. And then, the general public has the audacity to complain because we have feelings too! I can see that I made the wrong choice of being in the medical field when I should be a taker of medicine and not a giver!
somebody posting here has no life other than to rant in novels, aimed at a doctor whom is VERY forgiving from a hospitality perspective. OOP! hope I didn’t give too much away. Like the OB is friends with anyone who could put the insignificant pieces together.
I must abide by HIPAA laws in my career as well and it seems like, to be on the safe side, it might have been wise to say something more general like, “I hate when patients are routinely late for their appointments…it makes me wonder if I have to be on time for their births” or something to that effect.
I don’t see the horror here — like many others have said, the Dr. didn’t use the patient’s name. I read several comments daily on various Facebook walls that are far more damaging than this. I can understand the doctor’s frustrations. Life happens, being late happens from time to time, but continuing to put a wedge in someone’s schedule who is TRYING to help you without so much as a courtesy call to reschedule…tsk tsk on the patient’s part. Self accountability in our society is in a rapid decline. One needs help, one seeks out a civil servant (in this case the physician), one has zero respect and regard for the service sought out and in turn, one becomes victim. It’s a chain of events that occurs in every industry (first responders, social care, medical care, etc.). Physicians are human and humans have limits. Would we rather the Dr. keep her frustrations bottled up and inhibit the care that she gives her next patient? I think not.
I don’t feel that she did anything wrong. She didn’t name anybody, and it’s not like was the first time the person was late. You can only help those who are willing to help themselves, and as a Dr I am willing to bet my bottom dollar she is in it to help people! Facebook is for friends, it’s not like she put it on the front page of the newspaper. I am sure it is beyond frustrating when you sacrificied many years working to become a OB/GYN to help bring healthy babies into this world, then have the people who waste your time. It’s one thing if they don’t care enough about their unborn child to make sure everything is going good in there, it’s another to take up the time that could have been given to someone much, much more appreciative.
The doc has a right to vent. She didn’t include a name: it could be anyone. Unless someone can quote me where in HIPAA that it says you can speak in vague terms I don’t see a problem with her venting. Granted, her employer may have a problem… but this is why I make all my stuff is friends only.
For those of you that are crying “HIPPA VIOLATION!”…you need to review the HIPPA laws. Although she didn’t break any laws, she probably violated hospital policy.
Personally, I don’t disagree with her complaints or her post. As someone that has worked in the medical profession and as an OB patient myself, nothing is more irritating than a patient that shows up late on a regular basis or doesn’t show up at all. For one thing, if she doesn’t show up and doesn’t call, she’s basically preventing someone else from being seen because she’s too selfish to just call and say “Hey, something came up and I need to reschedule.”
People like her that show up hours late to appointments are the reason that people like me that show up a few minutes early/on time have to sit around for two hours to wait and be seen. THAT pisses me off. I have a life, too, and don’t want to sit around to wait for people like her to decide that it’s a good time for an appointment.
While I don’t agree with the comments about cancelling the induction, as the doctor, I would make it known that her constant tardiness and no-shows are causing issues for other patients. I would also let her know that she needs to find a different doctor for her next pregnancy, because I would not put up with it.
This is NOT a HIPPA Violation. People saying it is should actually go and read up on it. She named no names, she didn’t call anyone out, and she is venting about a VERY RUDE patient on her personal FB page just like everyone vents about their day. I really dont see what the big deal is. Her point was that some patients expect for their provider to be professional and courteous but they themselves behave like the world should bend over backwards to accomadate them just because they are pregnant. 15 mins late, okay. 30 mins late with a phone call, okay. An hour or more late, you need to reschedule. How inconsiderate to other patients. No show, no call….You and your insurance will be billed. I would have cancelled her induction because apparantly it was not important enough to the Patient to be on time for. Really…What are you doing that is more important? Maybe it is my Military background, but time is the one quantitive value that cannot be recovered. In in the OB’s case, time is literally money. I am pregnant, I have had terrible mornings and I am dealing with a few conditions but my dialing finger is still intact enough to give a courtesy call. This patients behavior is inexcusable, therefore this patient would be excused from my practice.
I don’t see what the dr. did wrong. Patients complain about their doctors all the time on Facebook. Teachers complain about students and vice versa. Accountants complain about clients and vice versa. etc. The woman should stop showing up late. As long as she didn’t name any names, then she is ok and should not have received any type of punishment. The hospital is just trying to prevent a lawsuit because with a woman like that(the one being late) I am sure she is itching to sue someone…aww the lower class citizens! GEEZ!
I agree assuming she is on welfare is wrong. I am on welfare. I am always early to my appointments. With my first I was early for the induction. Welfare doesn’t have a thing to do with it. Although, someone would have to have a really good reason to be late to every appointment. I think maybe the dr stretched that a little. Maybe she was late often but maybe it was because she rode the bus and the bus never showed on time. Or maybe her “baby daddy” had to work late often. Maybe she was doing the best she could. Or maybe she just didn’t give a crap. No body knows but her and no body has her side of the story. The Dr wasn’t in the wrong really. She did nothing more than anyone else on FB does. The only people that would be able to figure out who this patient was would be the co-workers in the dr office or the patient herself. I can say that if I had had a stillborn I would definately be more cautious with this one. As a matter of fact I was more cautious and still am because of several miscarriages. I am terrified and will call my dr at the drop of a hat. I would not be surprised if she complained about me calling her all the time on her fb page. I would not blame her in the least.
I don’t think it’s a big deal. The doc has a right to complain just like I do. No one was actually hurt by it so leave it alone. People just want to find reasons to be mad when there aren’t any.
It is absolutely NOT a HIPAA violation. Nowhere in that post does the doctor state any identifying patient factors. I honestly see nothing wrong with the post and it’s ridiculous that the doctor was spoken to as well as having her past posts reviewed.
BILLY JEAN
If you would have read what I actually typed you would know that this isn’t what I believe at all. I stated that I was neutral on the position. I am a medical professional as well and I can understand your pain. We can vent to other co-workers or family as long as we don’t mention names. Technically the same goes for social media, but those waters are murky territory. Not because the same principles don’t apply, because they do, but because you’re dealing with everyones opinion instead of those that can relate to you or those you can trust. People have their different point of views, and there are tons. Just because there was nothing wrong with what was said doesn’t mean that some people won’t still make a big deal out of it. Whether in the right or in the wrong, bad publicity is bad publicity and that is why her employer reacted the way they did. That is all that was meant by what was said in my previous comment. And I’ll state again, just to be clear, this is not my personal belief.
So the doctor complained because a patient was late. Can certainly understand her frustration since doctors are ALWAYS on time……..cough.
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